Re: charters numbers only as attributes ?
Georg Vogeler a écrit :
Hi everybody,
Gautier's and Patrick's contributions bring me back to the suggestion of a dedicated element <num> in the CEI proposal for the TEI. It might be good for the TEI to have that element for other projects to as digitising existing prints seems to me a common enterprise.
This <num> element already exists : http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/ref-NUM.html : " contains a number, written in any form". There is a "type" attribute. Gautier
Oh, that's good news. That means we would have to find an appropiate word for the type. What about: "reference"? Best wishes Georg On 12 Nov 2004 at 17:59, Gautier Poupeau wrote:
Georg Vogeler a écrit :
Hi everybody,
Gautier's and Patrick's contributions bring me back to the suggestion of a dedicated element <num> in the CEI proposal for the TEI. It might be good for the TEI to have that element for other projects to as digitising existing prints seems to me a common enterprise.
This <num> element already exists : http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/ref-NUM.html : " contains a number, written in any form". There is a "type" attribute.
Gautier
_________________________________________________________ Historisches Seminar Abteilung Geschichtliche Hilfswissenschaften Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität Muenchen Postadresse: Geschwister-Scholl-Platz 1, D-80539 Muenchen Bueroadresse: Amalienstr. 52, Zi. 211 T: ++49-89-2180 3784 F: ++49-89-21 80 2084 e-mail: G.Vogeler@lmu.de http://www.geschichte.uni-muenchen.de/ghw/personen_vogeler.shtml Moderator von der Virtual Library Geschichtliche Hilfswissenchaften (http://www.vl-ghw.lmu.de)
<num>-element There are two possibilities: 1.) We simply recommend to use it for the described purposes (running number of a charter in a collection) 2.) We aim on estabishing a new element. It seems to me, that <num> as defined in P4 isn't exactly what we are talking about. IN P4 it's extremely generic and it's not connected to any specific semantic meaning - as it is in our case. In P4 it means "this is a number" (like: "this is a word"), but not "this is the (running) number of an object" Uh, and I forgot the third possibility: use <num> and a specific (yet to define) attribute ... cheers, patrick At 18:29 12.11.04 +0100, you wrote:
Oh, that's good news. That means we would have to find an appropiate word for the type. What about: "reference"?
Best wishes
Georg
On 12 Nov 2004 at 17:59, Gautier Poupeau wrote:
Georg Vogeler a écrit :
Hi everybody,
Gautier's and Patrick's contributions bring me back to the suggestion of a dedicated element <num> in the CEI proposal for the TEI. It might be good for the TEI to have that element for other projects to as digitising existing prints seems to me a common enterprise.
This <num> element already exists : http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/ref-NUM.html : " contains a number, written in any form". There is a "type" attribute.
Gautier
_________________________________________________________ Historisches Seminar Abteilung Geschichtliche Hilfswissenschaften Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität Muenchen Postadresse: Geschwister-Scholl-Platz 1, D-80539 Muenchen Bueroadresse: Amalienstr. 52, Zi. 211 T: ++49-89-2180 3784 F: ++49-89-21 80 2084 e-mail: G.Vogeler@lmu.de http://www.geschichte.uni-muenchen.de/ghw/personen_vogeler.shtml Moderator von der Virtual Library Geschichtliche Hilfswissenchaften (http://www.vl-ghw.lmu.de)
___________________________________________________________________ Universität zu Köln Historisches Seminar Albertus-Magnus-Platz 50923 Koeln Privat: Häuschensweg 2a 50827 Köln +49 - (0)221 - 2805695 Sahle@uni-koeln.de http://www.uni-koeln.de/~ahz26/
Hi num is an element for marking a number (cardinal). The text streng inside a num need not to be a string of digits, could be i (square root of -1) or a roman number. In the printed series of regests (Regesta Norvegica) or the printed edition of Diplomatarium Norvegicum) some times a letter is added to the running number because a diploma may consist of two charters connected with a seal band or because there are two or more later vidisses (copies). Thus at least for our purpose it will not be right to use num. I don't have any good alternatives at the moment. In Norway we are using the number (with possible letters) from the printed editions as a kind of global identifiers when one refers to a given charter in a scolarly paper or book. Best, Christian-Emil At 12:08 13.11.2004, Patrick Sahle wrote:
<num>-element
There are two possibilities: 1.) We simply recommend to use it for the described purposes (running number of a charter in a collection) 2.) We aim on estabishing a new element. It seems to me, that <num> as defined in P4 isn't exactly what we are talking about. IN P4 it's extremely generic and it's not connected to any specific semantic meaning - as it is in our case. In P4 it means "this is a number" (like: "this is a word"), but not "this is the (running) number of an object"
Uh, and I forgot the third possibility: use <num> and a specific (yet to define) attribute ...
cheers,
patrick
At 18:29 12.11.04 +0100, you wrote:
Oh, that's good news. That means we would have to find an appropiate word for the type. What about: "reference"?
Best wishes
Georg
On 12 Nov 2004 at 17:59, Gautier Poupeau wrote:
Georg Vogeler a écrit :
Hi everybody,
Gautier's and Patrick's contributions bring me back to the suggestion of a dedicated element <num> in the CEI proposal for the TEI. It might be good for the TEI to have that element for other projects to as digitising existing prints seems to me a common enterprise.
This <num> element already exists : http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/ref-NUM.html : " contains a number, written in any form". There is a "type" attribute.
Gautier
_________________________________________________________ Historisches Seminar Abteilung Geschichtliche Hilfswissenschaften Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität Muenchen Postadresse: Geschwister-Scholl-Platz 1, D-80539 Muenchen Bueroadresse: Amalienstr. 52, Zi. 211 T: ++49-89-2180 3784 F: ++49-89-21 80 2084 e-mail: G.Vogeler@lmu.de http://www.geschichte.uni-muenchen.de/ghw/personen_vogeler.shtml Moderator von der Virtual Library Geschichtliche Hilfswissenchaften (http://www.vl-ghw.lmu.de)
___________________________________________________________________ Universität zu Köln Historisches Seminar Albertus-Magnus-Platz 50923 Koeln
Privat: Häuschensweg 2a 50827 Köln +49 - (0)221 - 2805695 Sahle@uni-koeln.de http://www.uni-koeln.de/~ahz26/
Hi, Re: Charter number: I think the more appropriate term for the charter number would be a charter identifier (in short "id") that could be any combination of letters and digits. Such identifier when it is present in the cartulary might be encoded exactly as it appears in the text as an element (probably with some attributes). There is also TEI element that could be used for that purpose called "idno". I see now need to encode any artificial identifier (like charter number) because it can be easily generated dynamically as a combination of original identifier and storage identifier (like database "Row Id", etc.) Michael Margolin, DEEDS Project, University of Toronto ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christian-Emil Ore" <c.e.s.ore@edd.uio.no> To: <cei-l@lists.lrz-muenchen.de>; <cei-l@lists.lrz-muenchen.de> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 11:51 AM Subject: Re: charters numbers only as attributes ?
Hi num is an element for marking a number (cardinal). The text streng inside a num need not to be a string of digits, could be i (square root of -1) or a roman number. In the printed series of regests (Regesta Norvegica) or the printed edition of Diplomatarium Norvegicum) some times a letter is added to the running number because a diploma may consist of two charters connected with a seal band or because there are two or more later vidisses (copies). Thus at least for our purpose it will not be right to use num. I don't have any good alternatives at the moment. In Norway we are using the number (with possible letters) from the printed editions as a kind of global identifiers when one refers to a given charter in a scolarly paper or book.
Best, Christian-Emil
At 12:08 13.11.2004, Patrick Sahle wrote:
<num>-element
There are two possibilities: 1.) We simply recommend to use it for the described purposes (running number of a charter in a collection) 2.) We aim on estabishing a new element. It seems to me, that <num> as defined in P4 isn't exactly what we are talking about. IN P4 it's extremely generic and it's not connected to any specific semantic meaning - as it is in our case. In P4 it means "this is a number" (like: "this is a word"), but not "this is the (running) number of an object"
Uh, and I forgot the third possibility: use <num> and a specific (yet to define) attribute ...
cheers,
patrick
At 18:29 12.11.04 +0100, you wrote:
Oh, that's good news. That means we would have to find an appropiate word for the type. What about: "reference"?
Best wishes
Georg
On 12 Nov 2004 at 17:59, Gautier Poupeau wrote:
Georg Vogeler a écrit :
Hi everybody,
Gautier's and Patrick's contributions bring me back to the suggestion of a dedicated element <num> in the CEI proposal for the TEI. It might be good for the TEI to have that element for other projects to as digitising existing prints seems to me a common enterprise.
This <num> element already exists : http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/ref-NUM.html : " contains a number, written in any form". There is a "type" attribute.
Gautier
_________________________________________________________ Historisches Seminar Abteilung Geschichtliche Hilfswissenschaften Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität Muenchen Postadresse: Geschwister-Scholl-Platz 1, D-80539 Muenchen Bueroadresse: Amalienstr. 52, Zi. 211 T: ++49-89-2180 3784 F: ++49-89-21 80 2084 e-mail: G.Vogeler@lmu.de http://www.geschichte.uni-muenchen.de/ghw/personen_vogeler.shtml Moderator von der Virtual Library Geschichtliche Hilfswissenchaften (http://www.vl-ghw.lmu.de)
___________________________________________________________________ Universität zu Köln Historisches Seminar Albertus-Magnus-Platz 50923 Koeln
Privat: Häuschensweg 2a 50827 Köln +49 - (0)221 - 2805695 Sahle@uni-koeln.de http://www.uni-koeln.de/~ahz26/
On the other hand, we need an element for charter numbers in printed editions, see the (annotated in Norwegian) facsimile of a page from Diplomatarium Norvegicum. The printed edtion has the following format: summary source information number date place text addenda In a proper TEI encode text the number should be marked as an element, but I don't think num is the right (I may be wrong). When we marked up the entire collection back in the early 1990'ies, we used a home made dtd. Best, Christian-Emil At 21:07 15.11.2004, you wrote:
Hi,
Re: Charter number:
I think the more appropriate term for the charter number would be a charter identifier (in short "id") that could be any combination of letters and digits. Such identifier when it is present in the cartulary might be encoded exactly as it appears in the text as an element (probably with some attributes). There is also TEI element that could be used for that purpose called "idno".
I see now need to encode any artificial identifier (like charter number) because it can be easily generated dynamically as a combination of original identifier and storage identifier (like database "Row Id", etc.)
Michael Margolin, DEEDS Project, University of Toronto
----- Original Message ----- From: "Christian-Emil Ore" <c.e.s.ore@edd.uio.no> To: <cei-l@lists.lrz-muenchen.de>; <cei-l@lists.lrz-muenchen.de> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 11:51 AM Subject: Re: charters numbers only as attributes ?
Hi num is an element for marking a number (cardinal). The text streng inside a num need not to be a string of digits, could be i (square root of -1) or a roman number. In the printed series of regests (Regesta Norvegica) or the printed edition of Diplomatarium Norvegicum) some times a letter is added to the running number because a diploma may consist of two charters connected with a seal band or because there are two or more later vidisses (copies). Thus at least for our purpose it will not be right to use num. I don't have any good alternatives at the moment. In Norway we are using the number (with possible letters) from the printed editions as a kind of global identifiers when one refers to a given charter in a scolarly paper or book.
Best, Christian-Emil
At 12:08 13.11.2004, Patrick Sahle wrote:
<num>-element
There are two possibilities: 1.) We simply recommend to use it for the described purposes (running number of a charter in a collection) 2.) We aim on estabishing a new element. It seems to me, that <num> as defined in P4 isn't exactly what we are talking about. IN P4 it's extremely generic and it's not connected to any specific semantic meaning - as it is in our case. In P4 it means "this is a number" (like: "this is a word"), but not "this is the (running) number of an object"
Uh, and I forgot the third possibility: use <num> and a specific (yet to define) attribute ...
cheers,
patrick
At 18:29 12.11.04 +0100, you wrote:
Oh, that's good news. That means we would have to find an appropiate word for the type. What about: "reference"?
Best wishes
Georg
On 12 Nov 2004 at 17:59, Gautier Poupeau wrote:
Georg Vogeler a écrit :
Hi everybody,
Gautier's and Patrick's contributions bring me back to the suggestion of a dedicated element <num> in the CEI proposal for the TEI. It might be good for the TEI to have that element for other projects to as digitising existing prints seems to me a common enterprise.
This <num> element already exists : http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/ref-NUM.html : " contains a number, written in any form". There is a "type" attribute.
Gautier
_________________________________________________________ Historisches Seminar Abteilung Geschichtliche Hilfswissenschaften Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität Muenchen Postadresse: Geschwister-Scholl-Platz 1, D-80539 Muenchen Bueroadresse: Amalienstr. 52, Zi. 211 T: ++49-89-2180 3784 F: ++49-89-21 80 2084 e-mail: G.Vogeler@lmu.de http://www.geschichte.uni-muenchen.de/ghw/personen_vogeler.shtml Moderator von der Virtual Library Geschichtliche Hilfswissenchaften (http://www.vl-ghw.lmu.de)
___________________________________________________________________ Universität zu Köln Historisches Seminar Albertus-Magnus-Platz 50923 Koeln
Privat: Häuschensweg 2a 50827 Köln +49 - (0)221 - 2805695 Sahle@uni-koeln.de http://www.uni-koeln.de/~ahz26/
I'd support that. Let's use <idno> for the given numbering. Best, Patrick At 15:07 15.11.04 -0500, you wrote:
Hi,
Re: Charter number:
I think the more appropriate term for the charter number would be a charter identifier (in short "id") that could be any combination of letters and digits. Such identifier when it is present in the cartulary might be encoded exactly as it appears in the text as an element (probably with some attributes). There is also TEI element that could be used for that purpose called "idno".
I see now need to encode any artificial identifier (like charter number) because it can be easily generated dynamically as a combination of original identifier and storage identifier (like database "Row Id", etc.)
Michael Margolin, DEEDS Project, University of Toronto
----- Original Message ----- From: "Christian-Emil Ore" <c.e.s.ore@edd.uio.no> To: <cei-l@lists.lrz-muenchen.de>; <cei-l@lists.lrz-muenchen.de> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 11:51 AM Subject: Re: charters numbers only as attributes ?
Hi num is an element for marking a number (cardinal). The text streng inside a num need not to be a string of digits, could be i (square root of -1) or a roman number. In the printed series of regests (Regesta Norvegica) or the printed edition of Diplomatarium Norvegicum) some times a letter is added to the running number because a diploma may consist of two charters connected with a seal band or because there are two or more later vidisses (copies). Thus at least for our purpose it will not be right to use num. I don't have any good alternatives at the moment. In Norway we are using the number (with possible letters) from the printed editions as a kind of global identifiers when one refers to a given charter in a scolarly paper or book.
Best, Christian-Emil
At 12:08 13.11.2004, Patrick Sahle wrote:
<num>-element
There are two possibilities: 1.) We simply recommend to use it for the described purposes (running number of a charter in a collection) 2.) We aim on estabishing a new element. It seems to me, that <num> as defined in P4 isn't exactly what we are talking about. IN P4 it's extremely generic and it's not connected to any specific semantic meaning - as it is in our case. In P4 it means "this is a number" (like: "this is a word"), but not "this is the (running) number of an object"
Uh, and I forgot the third possibility: use <num> and a specific (yet to define) attribute ...
cheers,
patrick
At 18:29 12.11.04 +0100, you wrote:
Oh, that's good news. That means we would have to find an appropiate word for the type. What about: "reference"?
Best wishes
Georg
On 12 Nov 2004 at 17:59, Gautier Poupeau wrote:
Georg Vogeler a écrit :
Hi everybody,
Gautier's and Patrick's contributions bring me back to the suggestion of a dedicated element <num> in the CEI proposal for the TEI. It might be good for the TEI to have that element for other projects to as digitising existing prints seems to me a common enterprise.
This <num> element already exists : http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/ref-NUM.html : " contains a number, written in any form". There is a "type" attribute.
Gautier
_________________________________________________________ Historisches Seminar Abteilung Geschichtliche Hilfswissenschaften Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität Muenchen Postadresse: Geschwister-Scholl-Platz 1, D-80539 Muenchen Bueroadresse: Amalienstr. 52, Zi. 211 T: ++49-89-2180 3784 F: ++49-89-21 80 2084 e-mail: G.Vogeler@lmu.de http://www.geschichte.uni-muenchen.de/ghw/personen_vogeler.shtml Moderator von der Virtual Library Geschichtliche Hilfswissenchaften (http://www.vl-ghw.lmu.de)
___________________________________________________________________ Universität zu Köln Historisches Seminar Albertus-Magnus-Platz 50923 Koeln
Privat: Häuschensweg 2a 50827 Köln +49 - (0)221 - 2805695 Sahle@uni-koeln.de http://www.uni-koeln.de/~ahz26/
___________________________________________________________________ Universität zu Köln Historisches Seminar Albertus-Magnus-Platz 50923 Koeln Privat: Häuschensweg 2a 50827 Köln +49 - (0)221 - 2805695 Sahle@uni-koeln.de http://www.uni-koeln.de/~ahz26/
participants (5)
-
Christian-Emil Ore
-
Gautier Poupeau
-
Georg Vogeler
-
Michael Margolin
-
Patrick Sahle