<div> or <seg> or ...

Georg Vogeler G.Vogeler at lrz.uni-muenchen.de
So Nov 7 21:47:37 CET 2004 

Hello everybody,

expecting much more comments and critics I am happy to have to deal 
only with these two - good founded - considerations.

Let's start with the <div>/<seg>-question:

I myself thought about the necesssity of dedicated elements for the 
diplomatic form of document. I do see that the arenga is in fact not 
more than one type of a text-segment like an introduction or an 
greeting clause in the beginning of a letter is. Thus I like the idea 
to put it into a <seg type="arenga">-element. But when I check the 
TEI I find that <seg> "May contain anything which may appear within a 
paragraph." (http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/ref-SEG.html) That is indeed 
not the case with the diplomatic structure of a charter. Thus we end 
up with the <div>-element: 

	<div type="protocol">
		<div type="Invocatio">In nomine dei</div>
		<div type="Intitulatio"> ...</div>
		...
	</div>

I'm not so happy with further streched use of the <div> element that 
Gautier suggests: Shouldn't we mark each charter with some unique 
element - just as MASTER does with the <msDescription>-Element? I do 
see that the single document in a medieval chartulary might suggest 
to see each document as a division of the complete text. But I don't 
see yet any disadvantage in structuring the text rather into 
<document>s than into <div type="document">.

Following a line of distinction between linguistic structures in the 
charters - best covered by the TEI-elements - and generic diplomatic 
structures I would like to stay with the diplomtic elements as 
<document> and the metadata in the regestum. In fact the introduction 
of those metadata-elements would IMHO improve the TEI-definition . 
But I'm willing to learn :-)

But I'm not stuck to the <num> element as it is indeed already 
represented in the id-attribute.

Concluding I would following the line of Michael, marking the 
diplomatic structure of the text with <div type="">, any individual 
clause with the <cl type="">-Element, but leaving the the <document> 
and a metadata hierarchy in the <regestum>. What do you think, 
Gautier :-)?

Best wishes

Georg

On 5 Nov 2004 at 22:05, Gautier Poupeau wrote:

> I'm ok with Michael. I already say in Münnich, for me it's an error to
> create specific elements for the different part of a charter. So,
> <seg> can be a solution, but there is better : <div> and we add the
> type of part with the attribute "type". It's the goal of the <div>
> element  to indicate the structure of the document. It's important,
> because we can edite another type of documents : letters, livre de
> comptes who don't have the same structure... and if we don't use
> generical elements to indicate the structure of our charters, we will
> not have to interrogate the different type of sources together and we
> loose the principle of interoperability, the goal of XML. For the same
> reason (think generic, not too specific), i think the <document>
> element can be replaced by a <div type="document"> or <div
> type="charters"> and for the <num> element we can use an attribute for
> example "n". Indeed, i think the meta-information like the number of a
> charter must be in an attribute and the text beetween the element must
> be interresting for an interrogation for a research. In the same
> logic, we can say <div type="text"> for <tenor>. For example : <div
> type="document">
>     <div type="regestum">
>        regeste
>     </div>
>     <div type="text">
>        <div type="protocol">
>           <div type="invocatio">
>              blabla....
>           </div>.....
>        </div>
>        <div type="context">
>              .....
>        </div>
>        <div type="eschatocol">
>              ....
>        </div>
>     </div>
> </div>
> 
> The <elongata> element can be replaced by <hi rend="ellongata">,
> indeed the <hi> element "marks a word or phrase as graphically
> distinct from the surrounding text" (tei Guideliness). This remark
> don't prevent to normalyze between us the content of the "type"
> attribute. I don't understand good the goal of the element :
> facsimilia, prints, regesta, studies. Are you sure it's an element or
> the content of an element ? If i understant good, the goal of this
> elements is to indicate wich type of edition we encode. For that, we
> can use the <witDetail> element with the "type" attribute, for example
> : <witDetail type="classdocuments">facsimilia</witDetail>.
> 
> Gautier Poupeau
> 
> Michael Margolin a écrit :
> 
> >Hi,
> >
> > 1. We suggest to use TEI element <seg> inside of the element <tenor>
> > as a
> >generic element for any diplomatic part encoding. The use <seg> would
> >allow to avoid any restrictions on the hierarchy or naming for any
> >given class of charters. The name of the diplomatic part shall be
> >assigned to the "type" attribute.
> >
> >2.  We suggest  to use CID definitions of diplomatic parts for
> >general guidance only and to allow any other name to be used without
> >violating  of the <tenor> definition.
> >
> >Michael Margolin,
> >DEEDS Project,
> >University of Toronto
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message ----- 
> >From: "Georg Vogeler" <G.Vogeler at lrz.uni-muenchen.de>
> >To: <cei-l at lists.lrz-muenchen.de>
> >Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 7:28 AM
> >Subject: TEI proposal - attachment 2
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >>... and the mailing list limits the size of attachments to 40 KB -
> >>so here is the link to the rtf-document:
> >>
> >>http://www.cei.lmu.de/TEI-Proposal.rtf
> >>
> >>and a pdf-Version:
> >>
> >>http://www.cei.lmu.de/TEI-Proposal.pdf
> >>
> >>_________________________________________________________
> >>Historisches Seminar
> >>Abteilung Geschichtliche Hilfswissenschaften
> >>Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität Muenchen
> >>Postadresse: Geschwister-Scholl-Platz 1, D-80539 Muenchen
> >>Bueroadresse: Amalienstr. 52, Zi. 211
> >>T: ++49-89-2180 3784    F: ++49-89-21 80 2084
> >>e-mail: G.Vogeler at lmu.de
> >>http://www.geschichte.uni-muenchen.de/ghw/personen_vogeler.shtml
> >>Moderator von der Virtual Library Geschichtliche Hilfswissenchaften
> >>(http://www.vl-ghw.lmu.de)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> 


_________________________________________________________
Historisches Seminar
Abteilung Geschichtliche Hilfswissenschaften
Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität Muenchen
Postadresse: Geschwister-Scholl-Platz 1, D-80539 Muenchen
Bueroadresse: Amalienstr. 52, Zi. 211
T: ++49-89-2180 3784    F: ++49-89-21 80 2084
e-mail: G.Vogeler at lmu.de
http://www.geschichte.uni-muenchen.de/ghw/personen_vogeler.shtml
Moderator von der Virtual Library Geschichtliche Hilfswissenchaften
(http://www.vl-ghw.lmu.de)

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