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[Fwd: Re: CEI-meeting Munich 3.3.2007]
by Georg Vogeler Feb. 25, 2007

Feb. 25, 2007

Dear list, I send this in behalf of Gautier Poupeau. You can find the mentioned documents at http://www.cei.lmu.de/poupeau/ Georg Gautier Poupeau wrote: Dear all, Luciana's proposals are interresting and I understand these problems. However, I find we must work step by step (if we speak about ISO standard before to know what is CEI, it's prematurate, I think, as we say in french : "il ne faut pas mettre la charrue avant les bœufs" ;-) ). So, I make you some ideas to try to work step by step. Last time in Munich, we saw we agreed about the different informations we want to encode, but we disagreed about the name of elements or the re-use of TEI. Today, I think it's a false problem or, rather, it's not the principal problem. I think the first step is to define all information we want to encode (all persons, all periods, all type of charters...), to classify them and to define tem. We must to success to agree with this list. With this list and this classification, we obtain a conceptual model to describe charters with the different problematic (archive science, edition, digitalisation, diplomatic perspectives...). This conceptual model is our reference and if we don't use the same name to our elements, it's not so a problem if each element corresponds with this model. There are different ways to classify our different informations, for example : - external information (caractères externes) : regestum, bibliography, analysis, witness list, description of witness... ; so the metadata - internal information (caractères internes) : body of charters, the different diplomatic part of charters, physical information (hands, inks, seals, lines...)...; the data We can also classify between the analysis by the scholar (regestum, different diplomatic part, place identification) and the charter itself (text, witness, physical informations)... I'm pretty sure we can classify these different informations with another system. I put in attachments of this e-mail the text of a conference I made in École normale supérieure in Lyon with linguists. In this paper, I try to propose a conceptual model to describe charters. Evidently, it's just for the idea and I'm sorry but this text is in french... I'm sure I won't have time to explain this classification for my paper in Munich (Georg already told me he will be inflexible with the time and I'm gossip ;-) ), so I think it can help us for this preliminary discussion. The second step is to see if we can agree about element names (attributes name and very important : attribute value, if we have to normalise this information). But, i'm sure that will be very complicated, because each country, each scholars, archivists, librarians... are their habits and their interpretation of a specific stuff. The third step, as Patrick said (and I thank you), is to try to have a conformance with TEI. With the last version of TEI (P5), we have a system to adapt TEI with our needs : ODD, I will explain this system in my paper and you will see we can change easily TEI and keep the conformance with guidelines. ODD may be a solution to agree all people. ODD has an another advantage. With an ODD file, we can generate a DTD, XML schema and Relax NG file, so the problem described by Patrick doesn't exist in this case. For my paper and for CEI meeting, I'm going to begin to make this work with ODD and the tag library proposed by Georg. The next steps, I think we will see if we success these first steps ;-) Best wishes Gautier Poupeau Georg Vogeler a écrit : > Dear List, > > Patrick Sahle wrote: >> Do you think, you could extract from the DTD a list of those elements >> (element names) which you feel uncomfortable with? Together with >> proposals for better names? > Luciana already did that, and I compiled it into the comments to the > online-Version of the tag-library. That's the place where I keep track > of any comment you make, and http://www.cei.lmu.de/all_elements.php > will be the handout for our meeting ... > > So just send me (or the list) your comments and we will see what > happens ... > > All the best > > Georg Vogeler > -- ------------------------------------- Dr.Georg Vogeler Historisches Seminar - Abt. Geschichtliche Hilfswissenschaften Ludwig-Maximilians-Universtitaet Muenchen e-mail: g.vogeler(a)lrz.uni-muenchen.de Internet: http://www.geschichte.uni-muenchen.de/ghw/personen_vogeler.shtml

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CEI-meeting Munich 3.3.2007
by Georg Vogeler Feb. 20, 2007

Feb. 20, 2007

Dear colleagues, to prepare our CEI meeting I have tried to build a final list of expressions that shold build our common vocabulary in charter encoding. You can find this list at http://www.cei.lmu.de/taglib.php We can build from this list a DTD as generic as possible as I did http://www.ceil.mu.de/DTD/CEI.dtd Please send all recommendations for alteration and emendation of these two texts to the list (cei-l(a)lists.lrz-muenchen.de) At our meeting I would like to discuss this list and decide on a recommendation that could drafted as follows (emendation by native speakers strongly desired!): The CEI recommends to use for any encoding of medieval and early moden charters the folling vocabulary. The CEI agrees that there are many different ways to encode charters and many good standards to stay conform with. Thus the CEI does not consider the list a prescriptive tag list with a definite hierarchy. The vocabulary could be used as element names, as attribute names or as attribute values. If you want to encode medieval or early modern charters the CEI invites you to use a DTD build of this tag list (http://www.cei.lmu.de/taglib.php) and that would be properly for the purpose of the CEI. We consider any encoding that can be validated with this DTD as "CEI-compliant". We consider any encoding that can be mapped to this CEI using XSLT as "CEI-ready". The meeting of the CEI will have the following agenda: 1. "formalities" (Sorry, I don't know the correct english expression for "Festlegung der Tagesordnung", "Feststellung der Beschlußfähigkeit" and all these democratic formalities that are common for formal meetings - but I'm sure, our meeting won't be as formal as this agenda!) 2. developing and testing of the common vocabulary - reports 3. adopt the common vocabulary and the above proposed recommendation 4. varia I hope we can finish the meeting before lunch. I will prepare a litte bit on the topic 2 and 3 but would be happy if anybody of you could contribute too - just send me a short message. I'm happy to inform you that we have again a interpreting team for french, italien, german contributions into english. I hope that will keep the discussion lively. I would like to invite the initial CEI-group (Michele Ansani, Bernhard Assmann, Micheal Gervers, Andreas Gniffke, Andreas Kuczera, Michael Margolin, Christian-Emil Ore, Gautier Poupeau, Karsten Uhde, Anrea Rapp, Patrick Sahle) to preside the meeting together with me although all of you are invited to take part on discussions and voting. I hope you can all agree with the agenda and I'm looking forward to meet you in Munich Georg -- ------------------------------------- Dr.Georg Vogeler Historisches Seminar - Abt. Geschichtliche Hilfswissenschaften Ludwig-Maximilians-Universtitaet Muenchen e-mail: g.vogeler(a)lrz.uni-muenchen.de Internet: http://www.geschichte.uni-muenchen.de/ghw/personen_vogeler.shtml

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Mails from [Gautier Poupeau <gautier.poupeau@enc.sorbonne.fr>]]
by Georg Vogeler Feb. 20, 2007

Feb. 20, 2007

Dear list, I fished a mail from Gautier that bounced from the list: Georg -------- Original-Nachricht -------- Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 09:59:17 +0100 From: Gautier Poupeau <gautier.poupeau(a)enc.sorbonne.fr> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (X11/20070103) To: cei-l(a)lists.lrz-muenchen.de Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: CEI-meeting Munich 3.3.2007] > > Are there any further suggestions as to which other conceptual > approaches I may take into account? Maybe, you can take into account CIDOC-CRM : http://cidoc.ics.forth.gr/ . It's a conceptual model for describing cultural heritage documentation (Christiam Emile Ore could speak better than me about it). There are some ideas interresting in this model. If you look metadata, I advice you to look the new chapter for Manuscript description in TEI P5 : http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/html/MS.html . Best wishes Gautier -- ------------------------------------- Dr.Georg Vogeler Historisches Seminar - Abt. Geschichtliche Hilfswissenschaften Ludwig-Maximilians-Universtitaet Muenchen e-mail: g.vogeler(a)lrz.uni-muenchen.de Internet: http://www.geschichte.uni-muenchen.de/ghw/personen_vogeler.shtml

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Re: CEI-DTD
by Luciana Duranti Feb. 16, 2007

Feb. 16, 2007

Hi Georg: I cannot open it. When I try I get an error message that says: Unknown file type. Can you send it in another format? Luciana At 08:24 AM 15/02/2007, you wrote: >Dear colleagues, > >there was a typo in the adress of the DTD: > >http://www.cei.lmu.de/DTD/CEI.dtd > >is correct. > >I shouldn't write mails sitting in a train ... > >Georg > >-- >Dr. Georg Vogeler >Historisches Seminar - Abt. Geschichtl. Hilfswiss. >Ludwig-Maximilians-Universitaet >Geschwister-Scholl-Pl. 1 - D 80539 Muenchen >http://www.geschichte.lmu.de/ghw/personen_vogeler.shtml Dr. Luciana Duranti Chair and Professor, Archival Studies Director, InterPARES Project (www.interpares.org) School of Library, Archival and Information Studies The University of British Columbia Suite 301 - 6190 Agronomy Road Vancouver, B.C.V6T 1Z3 Canada Tel. 604/822-2587 FAX 604/822-6006 http://www.slais.ubc.ca/PEOPLE/faculty/faculty-bio/duranti-bio.htm http://www.interpares.org/ld/

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CEI-DTD
by Georg Vogeler Feb. 15, 2007

Feb. 15, 2007

Dear colleagues, there was a typo in the adress of the DTD: http://www.cei.lmu.de/DTD/CEI.dtd is correct. I shouldn't write mails sitting in a train ... Georg -- Dr. Georg Vogeler Historisches Seminar - Abt. Geschichtl. Hilfswiss. Ludwig-Maximilians-Universitaet Geschwister-Scholl-Pl. 1 - D 80539 Muenchen http://www.geschichte.lmu.de/ghw/personen_vogeler.shtml

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Conference "Digital Diplomatics" 28.2.-2.3.07
by Georg Vogeler Feb. 10, 2006

Feb. 10, 2006

Dear colleagues, the work on the CEI still continues - although a bit hidden maybe. At the moment I want to turn to the idea of a new meeting: as some of you already know I plan a conference on "Digital diplomatics" in spring 2007 (28.2.-2.3.2007, cfr. http://www.geschichte.lmu.de/ghw/DigDipl07/index_en.shtml) The meeting should give the opportunity to exchange experiences in our projects and discuss more theoretical questions on the impact of IT- technologies on the work with medieval charters. As long as you haven't already noticed me I would like to invite you to propose a talk you would like to give until 20.2.2006 when I will have to complete the application forms for the funding of the conference. I'm looking forward to hearing from you Georg Vogeler _________________________________________________________ Historisches Seminar Abteilung Geschichtliche Hilfswissenschaften Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität Muenchen Postadresse: Geschwister-Scholl-Platz 1, D-80539 Muenchen Bueroadresse: Amalienstr. 52, Zi. 211 T: ++49-89-2180 3784 F: ++49-89-21 80 2084 e-mail: G.Vogeler(a)lmu.de http://www.geschichte.uni-muenchen.de/ghw/personen_vogeler.shtml Moderator von der Virtual Library Geschichtliche Hilfswissenchaften (http://www.vl-ghw.lmu.de)

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New electronic editions at the Ecole des chartes
by Gautier Poupeau Sept. 1, 2005

Sept. 1, 2005

The Ecole nationale des Chartes (Paris, France) has just released a few new documents on its website ELEC, the free online editions of the Ecole des Chartes (http://elec.enc.sorbonne.fr) The Obituary of Saint-Mont (http://elec.enc.sorbonne.fr/obituairesaintmont/) Ms. Marie-José Gasse-Grandjean, researcher at the University of Burgundy, publishes the first critical edition of this manuscript, along with the document itself digitized by Metz public library (médiathèque du Pontiffroy). The obituary, which has been dated 1406, was written for Guillaume de la Perche, prior of Saint-Mont, in order to list the names of all monastery benefactors and to celebrate their memory. This nice "book of practice", not quite a «*nécrologe* », nor a calendar nor a «censier» (liber censuum), is a unique source of information on everyday life among a small monastic community depending on the Abbey of Remiremont. The Formulary of Odart Morchesne (established according the manuscript ms BnF fr. 5024) (http://elec.enc.sorbonne.fr/morchesne/) This edition, prepared by Mr. Olivier Guyotjeannin, professor at the École des chartes, and Mr. Serge Lusignan, professor at the University of Montreal, with the help of students of the Ecole des Chartes, contains about 270 models of acts which were useful for notaries and secretaries working for the King of France in the XVth century. This handbook is remarkable because the acts were annnotated by the author himself. The richness of the vocabulary is also outstanding. This is why the École des chartes will publish this document twice : there will be a print version (to be published in the collection Mémoires et documents de l’École des chartes) more convenient for reading and an electronic version allowing to access and search the text. The Language of Acts, proceedings of the XIth International congress of diplomatics Troyes, Sept. 11-13, 2003 (http://elec.enc.sorbonne.fr/sommaire163.html) The eleventh plenary session of the International Commission of diplomatics was organized by the École des chartes. The various workshops focused on the language of acts, a topic which had emerged after a survey done by the École des chartes research center “History, mémory, heritage” (EA 3624). Papers are published on the Website as soon as Mr. Olivier Guyotjeannin receives them. Digital cartularies of the region Ile-de-France (http://elec.enc.sorbonne.fr/cartulaires/) The library of the École des chartes has a collection of early XXth century editions of cartularies of the region Ile-de-France which surrounds Paris. This digitization project, supported by the French Ministry of Education, has three aims: *to provide a digital facsimile of these rare editions which are not available in most libraries *to allow browsing through full-text acts and indexes and to provide a critical presentation of the edition (critical apparatus by the students of the Ecole des Chartes under the direction of Olivier Guyotjeannin) *to enhance digitization by providing access and search tools linking text and images, by creating tables for browsing, by allowing full-text search and the creation of personal data files. The following editions are available on our site : - Cartulary of the Abbey of Saint-Martin de Pontoise - Cartulary of the Abbey of Notre-Dame de la Roche - Cartulary of the royal Abbey of Montmartre - Cartulary of the Abbey of Porrois - Priory of Saint-Germain-en-Laye - Liber testamentorum Sancti Martini de Campis - Cartulary and censier (liber censuum) of Saint-Merry de Paris - Cartulary of Saint-Spire de Corbeil The most recent technologies in electronic publishing were used to produce these documents. Thanks to the standards chosen by the École des chartes (METS, TEI, XML), it is easy to browse through the documents, to make a full-text search _http://elec.enc.sorbonne.fr/exist/rechercher.php_ and to create indexes. Electronic documents produced by the École des chartes abide by TEI recommendations, thus promoting the durability and the interoperability of data among the international community dedicated to electronic edition in the field of Humanities (http://www.tei-c.org) Best regards, Gautier Poupeau, Electronic publisher at the Ecole des chartes

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CEI: Publication
by Georg Vogeler July 15, 2005

July 15, 2005

Hello everybody as most of you were participants of the CEI-conference April 2004 you might be interested in a preprint of a report a gave at the DRH 2004 in Newcastle now published at the Literary and Linguistic Computing server (http://llc.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/fqi031?ijkey=2g2Wf p4rzPQTKft&keytype=ref). Other publications related to the CEI are collected at http://www.cei.lmu.de/project.html#publications and I will be glad to add others. Best wishes from Munich Georg Vogeler _________________________________________________________ Historisches Seminar Abteilung Geschichtliche Hilfswissenschaften Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität Muenchen Postadresse: Geschwister-Scholl-Platz 1, D-80539 Muenchen Bueroadresse: Amalienstr. 52, Zi. 211 T: ++49-89-2180 3784 F: ++49-89-21 80 2084 e-mail: G.Vogeler(a)lmu.de http://www.geschichte.uni-muenchen.de/ghw/personen_vogeler.shtml Moderator von der Virtual Library Geschichtliche Hilfswissenchaften (http://www.vl-ghw.lmu.de)

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TEI-proposal 2
by Georg Vogeler May 10, 2005

May 10, 2005

Dear list, it took me a bit to get back to our discussion last november. I finally tried to introduce your arguments in the draft of the TEI proposal. Briefly: <text type="charter"> replaces <document> for the single charter. <chDesc> (for CharterDescription) replaces <regestum> for the metadata. <idno> replaces <number> for the given identifying number of a single charter. <listBibl type="facsimilia|prints|regesta|studies"> replaces the dedicated elements <facsimilia> <prints> <regesta> <studies>. The discussion on the segmentation of the tenor didn't reach a consensus. As a compromise I would like to suggest to keep the elements of the well-established diplomatic terminology (<arenga>, <narratio>, <dispositio> etc.) but do not force them into the strict hierarchy of the <protocoll>, <context> and <eschatocoll>. Did I miss anything? You can find the new version of the proposal to the TEI at http://www.cei.lmu.de/TEI-Proposal.pdf or http://www.cei.lmu.de/TEI-Proposal.rtf and I hope everybody can agree with it as the base of further discussion, but I expect lots of suggestions for improvements of content and style. Just let me know during the next two weeks. After that I will post the proposal. Best wishes Georg _________________________________________________________ Historisches Seminar Abteilung Geschichtliche Hilfswissenschaften Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität Muenchen Postadresse: Geschwister-Scholl-Platz 1, D-80539 Muenchen Bueroadresse: Amalienstr. 52, Zi. 211 T: ++49-89-2180 3784 F: ++49-89-21 80 2084 e-mail: G.Vogeler(a)lmu.de http://www.geschichte.uni-muenchen.de/ghw/personen_vogeler.shtml Moderator von der Virtual Library Geschichtliche Hilfswissenchaften (http://www.vl-ghw.lmu.de)

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Re: Marking up medieval wills and inventories
by Georg Vogeler April 22, 2005

April 22, 2005

Dear Howard Batchelor, may I draw your attention to the Charters Encoding Iniative (http://www.cei.lmu.de)? Scholars working with medieval and early modern charters discuss an enlargement of the TEI definitions for this kind of material. In our view your interest in the material culture might be satisfied by using indexing-tags (like <index> or an specialised <res>-element we would like to introduce in the TEI) that can distinguish between the given word in the will and some regularised words as an attribute. I would be very interested to hear more about your project as you have rightly emphasised the multiple relevance of the wills as documents of material culture as well as documents of believe, of legal concepts etc. Best wishes Georg Vogeler On 21 Apr 2005 at 12:10, Howard Batchelor wrote to TEI-L(a)LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU: > TEI members: > > Has any TEI-based project ever considered the problem of marking up > medieval wills or deeds of gift in such a way as to support extraction > of information about material culture in general, but especially books > and other possessions indicating the interests and tastes of the > owner? The primary objective is to create a schema closely based on > standard TEI practices that would support tracking of manuscript works > in particular, but the documents also contain information about other > possessions that may interest historians. > > Advice from anyone with comparable experience would be greatly > appreciated. > > Howard Batchelor > UCLA Digital Library Coordinator > howardb(a)library.ucla.edu > 310.825.7657 > > _________________________________________________________ Historisches Seminar Abteilung Geschichtliche Hilfswissenschaften Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität Muenchen Postadresse: Geschwister-Scholl-Platz 1, D-80539 Muenchen Bueroadresse: Amalienstr. 52, Zi. 211 T: ++49-89-2180 3784 F: ++49-89-21 80 2084 e-mail: G.Vogeler(a)lmu.de http://www.geschichte.uni-muenchen.de/ghw/personen_vogeler.shtml Moderator von der Virtual Library Geschichtliche Hilfswissenchaften (http://www.vl-ghw.lmu.de)

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